We had store like this in Oregon, Frye's Electronics, that checked your receipt. They told Todd once that it was voluntary, and that they could not force you to show it. Don't know if that is an Oregon law or not.

Once the sales transaction is complete the property becomes, personal property. They can�t stop you unless they have physically witnessed you shop lifting. They can't even open your store bag unless they have proof of you stealing.

Giving them your receipt and letting them look in your bag is completely voluntary.

A Best Buy employee made the mistake of touching my chest in an attempt to stop me and check my bag. I informed him that by touching me constitutes assault and I have the right to defend myself. He let me go though.

You mean the Best Buy employee didn't snap back, "Uh uh! It's not assault, it's battery."

Criminals tend to get flustered when you ask them that, or they'll cough it up happily and hope that you don't notice that they didn't pay for half their stuff.

I used to work in a greenhouse, retail, and it was surprisng how many people would try and hide small plants within large ones hoping not to pay for them.

If one of them touches you, sue them for false arrest.

Any shoplifter will do the same if a store dick screws up and manhandles then sans evidence.

Teach these idiots why grabbing honest people is a really bad idea. They do not have the same liability protection that police have ... make every store dick fuck-up a $10,000 moment.

Cut the stores a little slack. They've got huge problems with shoplifting - as in, about half the people born in the last 50 or 60 years grew up with no concept of respecting the property of "evil capitalists". Those socialists running the school systems certainly don't teach the kids not to steal. Many parents try to teach that, but some don't and some fail to overcome the conflicting messages received from other brats and popular music as well as the worst of the "educators".

If most stuff wasn't so cheap, I'd expect more stores to be operated like jewelry stores - everything locked up and you've got to get a clerk to get it out. That costs more in labor, so it only works well for really expensive items, or for things like auto parts where you pay a pretty high markup for the store to try to keep one or two of everything on the shelves and organized so their people can find them. The old small-town general stores also worked partly this way, with most of the stock in the back and clerks bringing out your orders - and I'm not sure how much of that was because of different economics and how much was because there were too many poorly socialized people living in isolated areas in the 19th century.

True story:

Back in late 1999, I was shopping at a home improvement store that had an armed guard at the entrance (apparently a fairly crappy area - I was only there because I was working a client site nearby and was shopping during lunch). I bought a box of landscape lights and was on my way out the door (flanked with security sensors, BTW) when the guard said, "I need to see your receipt" and stood in my way. I replied, "There isn't another customer within sight of the registers, you saw me pay for this and there is no alarm from the sensors, so step aside." He then said, "I don't want any trouble, just show me the receipt" to which I replied, "I don't want any trouble either, but you are trying your best to give me some. Listen up: I'm not showing you anything but my backside walking to my car, so move." I start to walk away and he does move. Good, I'm on my way.

Ok, so then maybe I'm not quite yet on my way. He then grabs my left arm and goes for his handcuffs (!) while I'm trying not to drop the box. Man, I had to fight back the urge to drop this asshole right then and there. Instead, I let go of the box and stepped left into him, pivoted left and inward, placed my right leg behind him and "helped him to the ground". He immediatly went for his weapon when he realized he was on his back. I'd pay a grand for a photo of his face when he realized his holster was empty. I emptied the cylinder of his H&R .32 revolver into the trash can next to the door, put the gun in my belt and told him to stay down. He started to get up and swung the cuffs (still in his hand) at my shins. I moved out of the way, reached around behind his head, flipped him over face down and grabbed his OC spray and tossed the cuffs out into the parking lot. He tried again to get up (and, more importantly, was threatening to kill me) so I let him have it with the OC spray. Great stuff BTW. I never even came close to unholstering my Glock!

I pressed charges against the guard, sued the store and the security company and returned the lights for refund (not in that order - pressed charges, returned the purchase, finished clients work at site, lawyered up)...

The settlement netted me nearly $20K after all expenses. I'll defend myself for free anyday, but some should be made to pay for putting weapons and "authority" into the hands of an idiot like that guy.

Markm has it right. Grow up.
Standing up to a middle aged store security guy making $8 per hour and his request for a receipt is right up there with 'loaning' the local bully $5.00 a day. Weak display of faux courage. Not impressive. Much more impressed with Ravenwood's Dad and his respect for the store's security efforts and especially for the guard's dignity. You can measure the wisdom of years in the hohum attitude of Dad versus Ravenwood's synthesized outrage.
And LOL at RimjobJones and the Mack Bolan episode of Home Improvement.
There are more challenging arenas in life than the 'gutsy' thwarting of store security measures. They are trying to stop thievery, make a few dollars, and be respectful at the same time. (You know how those PC idiots can be, oops..)
If you want to show real courage, take on RimJobJones the next time he turns "Lunchtime at Traget" into a Medal of Honor story.

Mikem,

Chicken. Bawk... bawk..

ROTFL!

Teach these idiots why grabbing honest people is a really bad idea. They do not have the same liability protection that police have ... make every store dick fuck-up a $10,000 moment.

Ugh, actually private security has more liability protection than police do. Supreme Court says private agencies do not have to follow the Constitution. I've seen P.S. use warrantless searching powers go through cars without a warrant or PC. ol' popo can't do that. The difference is the police know how far they can go via training, most security do not.

It is pretty much voluntary to show a receipt and there is nothing anyone can really do about it legally unless you are acting illegal. The reason to do it is if people don't know their rights or if there is a shoplifter out there it usually spooks them a bit and stops them from breaking the law. In theory. (Now if someone did see you steal or thought they saw you steal they can stop you and use "any force reasonably neccassary" to gain a lawful arrest.)

I know in the State of Kansas if you put something in your pocket while in the store it is considered theft. Most bix box retail stores policies usually match what they call the California standard. Which is they have to watch you with the item until you leave the store.

Oh yeah, if you are in the wrong when it comes to stealing don't play dumb and innocent and not comply and threaten legal action when you do get caught. I got to toss a bitch of a shoplifter into a crown vic hood for acting that way.

Mikem-

Rather than play your juvenile nickname games, I'll just respond to you with this: Blocking my exit and refusing to let me pass was a clear violation of not only the store policy and the security company policy, but was also illegal as there was no reason to suspect me of any theft - receipt-checking is purely voluntary on the part of the customer. As soon as he grabbed my arm (outside the store, BTW) it became battery and an attempt at false arrest and false imprisonment by the use of unjust force (he pulled out his cuffs and indicated that he was about to use them).

The last thing I'm looking for is conflict with anyone, but I will never allow some fool to cuff me for no reason. That incident is the third physical altercation of my adult life (I'm 45) and all have been purely defensive, minimal force needed to stop the threat and last-or-only-resort.

The guard was wrong enough in the eyes of the law that he was convicted (vigorously by the D.A.) and sentenced for his actions.

rimfire: Still, bragging about beating up Barnie Fyfe is bogue...

Rather than merely walk past the receipt-grabber at the door, I prefer to make as many people aware of the ridiculousness of the idea as possible. My receipt goes into my wallet before I leave the cashier lane. If anyone stops me to see my receipt, it takes quite a while before I manage to "find" it. Make the plan a pain for the store, and they'll stop it.

Markm -

Read what was written carefully...the guard was not beat up. He was put on his back by a simple Judo move (not even a throw, really) after he made belligerent physical contact with me. Stripped of his revolver - which I immediately unloaded so as to remove the threat of gunfire (he should have been relieved) - he attempts to injure me by swinging a set of cuffs as he rises up to continue a fight he started (yes, a fight, not a legitimate security function). As he rose to engage me, he was put down again without any form of strike - just the removal of the cuff threat and the O.C. spray. Technically speaking, a submission hold, choke or disabling strike is what should have been employed against an armed assailant. Instead, and at great risk to myself, all he got was a dose of O.C. spray.

This guy was no Barney (Fyfe or the purple kind) - he was 26, 6'1", 225 lbs. and a real jerk. Remember, he went for his revolver(!), swung the cuffs and made the statement that he was going to kill me.

Markm you need to lighten up. The security guy was asking for trouble. More people carry guns than you know, and they act more professionally than that security poser. I would have done the same thing rimfirejones did.

BTW rimfire, awesome story.

Bottom line... If you are going to do a job professionally you should at least know the laws. This security person clearly didn't, and he got what was coming. I can't believe he went for his gun. I'm sure he lost his LTC for that as well.

rimfire, email me.

This hould,nt be allowed in this nation