Good point. It seems to me that a business has the right to choose to be smoking or no smoking. Same thing for those who choose to work there. Let the market be the determining factor and not the government.

This has always been a private property issue to me. If it's MY BAR and I want to allow smoking, the market should decide whether I made a good business decision or not.

That ain't the government's job.

>That ain't the government's job.
Yep. Not being a smoker I probably wouldn't do business there unless they had a damned good ventilation system. Hell, even when I did smoke the lack of air in some of my favorite bars nearly choked me.
But since my favorite bars also attracted a lot of very good looking women who also smoked.... well, you know the rest.... and were I still single.... hell, I'd gag it out...

Everyone keep saying, well it's been working in California for years, there is a reason for that. There is an exemption in California for those establishments with 5 or less employees. That is really the local corner taverns who have benefitted from the legislation because all smokers have moved from the corporately owned bars to these local establishments. If New York had an identical exemption we would all be happy.
Watch out Pizza Parlour owners you will be next to be targetted, for our own good.

The obvious problem with such an exemption is that it penalizes growth. If a bar owner has 5 employees and his business is growing such that he could hire 2 more, he may opt to stand pat rather than lose his exemption.

That would be an example of stifling the creation of jobs, rather than fostering job growth. I can imagine it now.. "Gee, I'd love to hire you, but if I do I'm going to lose my smoking exemption and a ton of business if I do. Sorry, thanks for applying but get lost."

What else does the goverenment get to take away? Everyone seems so damed concerned with the non-smokers rights, but what about us smokers right? I guess we are not as important or our rights don't count as much anymore! I can understand the opposing arguement because I do respect their rights, now someone needs to start respecting our god given right to choice. If I want to smoke a ciggeratte after my meal who the hell does the state think they are telling me I can't. It really bugs me because I was always so proud to be a New Yorker. New York stood for something once nowI just can't wait to get the hell outa here.

There can be no doubt the smoking ban in bars is hurting business in NYC. The bars in my neigborhood are rarely full anymore, people may go outside to smoke once but not twice hence liquor sales are down. At concert clubs one can see the whole place empty out as soon as the band stops playing, a club owner said her revenues were so bad that she has to consider closing her establishment which is very bad for small bands and music lovers! Me and my friends who used to go to bars several nights a week are now mostly staying home instead as the only 'smoking' bar in the neighborhood is too crowded (their business however is up more than 80%!). One can argue that it is a good thing to not spend so much money in bars, which is probably true, but we miss the ease of being 'regulars' in the place "where everybody knows your name". If the concern is for bar employees' health then how come they are not offered health insurance by the state? And how come there were no non-smoking bars before the ban? There should be a choice for everyone, bar owners, patrons and employees alike, the state should not be able to impose these rules without more extensive hearings. Besides I have yet to see any hard evidence on second-hand smoke, where is the actual data that is always being referred to?

VOTE em out guys! Make them feel sorry for voting against us. Even if we dont succeed in voting out politicians who voted for the ban at least we can make an impression on state legislators. We can make them think twice about this ban. Especially senator Kruger(brooklyn), Fuchillo(Freeport LI).! Go to http://www.nycclash.com/NYSban2003.html#LegislativeVote to find out how ur reps voted.